Almost none of that can be proved. People can barely prove the existence of Jesus and Mary so how can one assert she was not a virgin? Most of the bible is altered mostly due to mis translations over 2000 years, understandable or no?

well the fact that where Jesus was supposedly born due to a census, it is shown no census took place there, they were nowhere near there, only there because it wasking davids birthplace. id go into moredetail but im exhausted

Originally posted by Auminer

Originally posted by Slickster

Originally posted by Odin

Originally posted by JayMeal

Originally posted by Odin

Originally posted by Slickster

Originally posted by JayMeal

no one says God is defined by our laws of science and mathematics! Our laws do not apply to a divine being obviously

the argument that "God exists outside the boundaries of our laws" does not escape from the consequences of "God cannot exist according to the laws of our world". If God cannot exist in some world W that obeys our mathematical laws, then he is not God.

We cannot create nor comprehend the existence of God, and a God that complies with our logic, is not a God it's a mortal being.

If we cannot nor comprehend it then why do we worship it?

very good question! most are thankful for the sake of being alive. Christians the sacrifice of Christ.

Originally posted by Auminer

Originally posted by Slickster

Originally posted by jasonkil

proven by many many many people that the new testament is at least 75% lies

this I have seen.

Ah but do "you" know for a fact that the exact % of 75% is true? Who conducted the research? Were they completely unbiased? What did they prove to be fact? Did they record everything properly? Generally it is a good idea that if enough people say something, let alone those with credibility, that it is true. However, it can also be said that make people believe that you are telling the truth and have a few follow that the "no brainers" ( as I will call them IE the sheep that is the majority of the worlds populace, yes those that follow not lead ) will believe you.

For every "lie" that is proven, there is a "truth" that proves it otherwise. Yes, even science has different viewpoints. Math doesn't and science doesn't if they are taken for what they are. However mankind simply loves to put feelings and a storyline behind anything, including facts. At this point, the information found is now skewed. Yes on both sides of the spectrum.

Also, I am not discrediting that the New Testament is largely influenced by man. Hell, look at when the last version came out. It clearly was fit to suite royalty to some degree and to tax people even further. Your basically going to hell ( back then ) if you do not go to church every Sunday and donate whats in your pockets. Too poor? Too bad, you need to buy your way in. That's mans words, not gods.

So again, to base either argument over something that was largely written and skewed by man is no basis for an argument. Same goes with completely dismissing god because energy collided and went BOOM and there was evolution.

If you can't see what I am writing I will boil it down. Don't take anyone's word for your personal belief ( whatever it may be ). You believe in god, good for you. You believe in nothing but science and that energy manifested out of nowhere in space and 2 atoms collided in the vast emptiness in which all of this was created, good for you ( seriously, I am a firm believer of the right to believe in what in the hell you want to no matter what it is or what country you are from ). Just be damned sure that it is "your" belief and that you know *why* you believe it.

you're having fun. Unbiased, no. It was an argument between family members. One being a Hebrew Israelite the other a Christian. Some scriptures that were in one's bible weren't in the others (Christian's). He said they were "lost in time" bringing forth the arguement "how does that happen"?

Yes, yes I am having fun. Again I love playing devil's advocate even against my own personal beliefs. From time to time when I do this, I even open my eyes to something I may not have known or believed was true. ***IMHO*** I think everyone should do it from time to time if only to ensure their beliefs haven't changed.

Oh I do. all the time.

That was the argument my friends had as to these "mistranslations". One's bible supposedly had it, the other's didn't.

He was born due to a census? ._.

Im outta here...peace fellas. Much respect, regardless of the side of the argument.

well i saw it in a programme entitled "The Truth About The Bible", showed roughly three quarters(about 75%) of the New Testament is lies, beginning with Jesus' birthplace, the fact that Mary was not a virgin, Jesus was married and so on.

You saw it on television so that must be true, right?

What we can prove about Jesus' life and death apart from what's in the Bible is next to nothing. There's a few references in ancient volumes but you could probably fit everything written about Jesus during his lifetime and within the next twenty years on one page. Thus where he was born, whether he was married etc is not known. It is a matter of faith to those who believe that Jesus was a seriously awesome dude. And for those who don't care for him, I can't imagine why it would matter if he was married or not. Practically speaking, the only stories we have about Jesus are the ones in the Bible.

My answer to the original question is that I do believe there is a God. I don't believe that because I can prove it. The truth is nothing is genuinely provable in this world or in the realm of the Divine. I believe it because God has transformed my life. Because of God's presence, I have peace and I have meaning.

I find in the Bible a lot of thought provoking questions and a lot of answers that I can live by. It doesn't cover everything, nor do i understand everything that's in there. People who have been too sure of what the Bible means have often been too quick to judge others and have caused great harm. I'm still ready to learn and ready to change my opinion.

As for the arguments about Creation, it is again simply a matter of faith. The big leaps like going from nothing to something, or going from having no living creatures to having living creatures are not things science can prove or duplicate. They have their theories and I have mine. I believe, and I could be wrong, that one day science and religion will agree how these things happened, but that time is not yet.

As for the logical proof that God does not exist, I'm sure it is possible to logically prove that I don't exist too, but it wouldn't make me go away. Proving that things don't exist is relatively easy. Proving that anything exists is really really hard, I would say impossible. And if you wanted to try it, I could come up with a new question for every proof you had, attacking every postulate, every step of logic, every definition of language. It is simply absurd to believe anything can be proven beyond all doubt, but phenomena and people and God can be experienced.

Dyslexic insomniac theists will stay up all night pondering the existence of Dog.

Funny! dyslexic... god & dog. Apples & oranges in comparison as well.

Dog is real. He lives in Hawaii and catches people that jump bail.....

And Dog is a Christian... so where are we at now? ;]