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If you start a fight YOU SHOULD SWING FIRST!!!!

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14 years ago  #31
Death_H...
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Originally posted by neo88
Originally posted by Death_Hand_Luke
Originally posted by neo88
Originally posted by Death_Hand_Luke
Originally posted by neo88 yes defense trainers have it difficult you have to be much past their str not just a little. or you need to work on your speed so the other player doesnt get as many swings. if your speed is 25mil and mine is 250mil then I get 10 swings before you get one swing. which is why you can win with less str then their def.

but you pretty much are guaranteed to lose if you are not within 10% of their def....15mil may seem like a lot to lower lvls but that can easily be within the 10% range at higher lvls.

I wasn't trying to put worms idea down at all, he just needs to elaborate on more aspects of what would decide if you land your hit or not. Cause if I was able to swing first at bluesky or bk then I would win every time cause my str is way more then their defense.

Actually defence trainers have it easier than the rest... they can put all their training into one stat, instead of splitting between strength and defence. Plus they have more amens available (and often cheaper too)... defence trainers can get over 400% increase due to amens, speed an strength is only just 300% each (worked this out for Hana a few months ago).

Obviously the disadvantage for defence trainers is that they cant hold cash as easily as speed/strength trainers.

not so much actually....yeah def trainers can train all def but they wont win any fights, you will just tie....what about str you will still need that to win a fight?...and you will still get mugged with no speed.

and training 100k speed gained me 520k in my speed cell.....thats a bit more then 300%

You forget the effects of weapons and armour

As for fights tieing... most speed/strength trainers have very little defence so you don't need much strength to win. Mixed trainers are a different bag and it isn't so clear cut

the weapons and armor can only add 20% more speed....so its still way more then 300%. and if you only train def you are fucked plain and simple....def trainers are pretty much forced to train all 3 stats : you will never get by just training def. spd/str trainers only have to train spd/str

That's 20% on base makes the amens more effective... I don't have the exact figures from the amens here (they're at work) but the defence was certainly much better in terms of percentage increase increase (over 100% more) - I just recall the 300 something and 400 something %.

Also when a speed/strength trainer attacks quickly, he lowers his stamina so the defence trainer needs much less attack when he gets round to hitting. Given a certain amount of stats to be distributed between the three a defence trainer who trains a little strength and speed (say 70%, 15%, 15%) will nearly always beat a speed/strength trainer who does a 45%, 45%, 10% split for example. I think those splits are close to the norm.

Last edited by Death_Hand_Luke 14 years ago

14 years ago  #32
neo88
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Originally posted by Death_Hand_Luke
Originally posted by neo88
Originally posted by Death_Hand_Luke
Originally posted by neo88
Originally posted by Death_Hand_Luke
Originally posted by neo88 yes defense trainers have it difficult you have to be much past their str not just a little. or you need to work on your speed so the other player doesnt get as many swings. if your speed is 25mil and mine is 250mil then I get 10 swings before you get one swing. which is why you can win with less str then their def.

but you pretty much are guaranteed to lose if you are not within 10% of their def....15mil may seem like a lot to lower lvls but that can easily be within the 10% range at higher lvls.

I wasn't trying to put worms idea down at all, he just needs to elaborate on more aspects of what would decide if you land your hit or not. Cause if I was able to swing first at bluesky or bk then I would win every time cause my str is way more then their defense.

Actually defence trainers have it easier than the rest... they can put all their training into one stat, instead of splitting between strength and defence. Plus they have more amens available (and often cheaper too)... defence trainers can get over 400% increase due to amens, speed an strength is only just 300% each (worked this out for Hana a few months ago).

Obviously the disadvantage for defence trainers is that they cant hold cash as easily as speed/strength trainers.

not so much actually....yeah def trainers can train all def but they wont win any fights, you will just tie....what about str you will still need that to win a fight?...and you will still get mugged with no speed.

and training 100k speed gained me 520k in my speed cell.....thats a bit more then 300%

You forget the effects of weapons and armour

As for fights tieing... most speed/strength trainers have very little defence so you don't need much strength to win. Mixed trainers are a different bag and it isn't so clear cut

the weapons and armor can only add 20% more speed....so its still way more then 300%. and if you only train def you are fucked plain and simple....def trainers are pretty much forced to train all 3 stats : you will never get by just training def. spd/str trainers only have to train spd/str

That's 20% on base makes the amens more effective... I don't have the exact figures from the amens here (they're at work) but the defence was certainly much better in terms of percentage increase increase (over 100% more) - I just recall the 300 something and 400 something %.

Also when a speed/strength trainer attacks quickly, he lowers his stamina so the defence trainer needs much less attack when he gets round to hitting. Given a certain amount of stats to be distributed between the three a defence trainer who trains a little strength and speed (say 70%, 15%, 15%) will nearly always beat a speed/strength trainer who does a 45%, 45%, 10% split for example. I think those splits are close to the norm.

well just about all spd/str trainers only train those two stats, and most the top def players train all 3 stats so I dont understand how training 3 things can be easier then one.

and with no weapon and armor I get 375% increase in speed with no splice and over 400% with splice.

and considering 95% of the def increase comes off one very expensive ammen that most def trainers dont even have.

i'd say spd/str is much easier then training def.

14 years ago  #33
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Originally posted by neo88
Originally posted by Death_Hand_Luke
Originally posted by neo88
Originally posted by Death_Hand_Luke
Originally posted by neo88
Originally posted by Death_Hand_Luke
Originally posted by neo88 yes defense trainers have it difficult you have to be much past their str not just a little. or you need to work on your speed so the other player doesnt get as many swings. if your speed is 25mil and mine is 250mil then I get 10 swings before you get one swing. which is why you can win with less str then their def.

but you pretty much are guaranteed to lose if you are not within 10% of their def....15mil may seem like a lot to lower lvls but that can easily be within the 10% range at higher lvls.

I wasn't trying to put worms idea down at all, he just needs to elaborate on more aspects of what would decide if you land your hit or not. Cause if I was able to swing first at bluesky or bk then I would win every time cause my str is way more then their defense.

Actually defence trainers have it easier than the rest... they can put all their training into one stat, instead of splitting between strength and defence. Plus they have more amens available (and often cheaper too)... defence trainers can get over 400% increase due to amens, speed an strength is only just 300% each (worked this out for Hana a few months ago).

Obviously the disadvantage for defence trainers is that they cant hold cash as easily as speed/strength trainers.

not so much actually....yeah def trainers can train all def but they wont win any fights, you will just tie....what about str you will still need that to win a fight?...and you will still get mugged with no speed.

and training 100k speed gained me 520k in my speed cell.....thats a bit more then 300%

You forget the effects of weapons and armour

As for fights tieing... most speed/strength trainers have very little defence so you don't need much strength to win. Mixed trainers are a different bag and it isn't so clear cut

the weapons and armor can only add 20% more speed....so its still way more then 300%. and if you only train def you are fucked plain and simple....def trainers are pretty much forced to train all 3 stats : you will never get by just training def. spd/str trainers only have to train spd/str

That's 20% on base makes the amens more effective... I don't have the exact figures from the amens here (they're at work) but the defence was certainly much better in terms of percentage increase increase (over 100% more) - I just recall the 300 something and 400 something %.

Also when a speed/strength trainer attacks quickly, he lowers his stamina so the defence trainer needs much less attack when he gets round to hitting. Given a certain amount of stats to be distributed between the three a defence trainer who trains a little strength and speed (say 70%, 15%, 15%) will nearly always beat a speed/strength trainer who does a 45%, 45%, 10% split for example. I think those splits are close to the norm.

well just about all spd/str trainers only train those two stats, and most the top def players train all 3 stats so I dont understand how training 3 things can be easier then one.

and with no weapon and armor I get 375% increase in speed with no splice and over 400% with splice.

and considering 95% of the def increase comes off one very expensive ammen that most def trainers dont even have.

i'd say spd/str is much easier then training def.

As splice only gives a 10% increase, how can it change your increase from 375% to 400%? Something isn't right about your numbers I think.

Yeah but they hardly have to train speed and strength... their stats are not evenly distributed. For example... in total I have 1.4 mil worth of stats (1 mil speed, 400k strength) but the ghost has under 1 mil speed and about 200k speed and strength from memory. So we have about the same amount of total stats. Yet he beats me in a fight every time... even if I had 700k on strength and speed evenly. However I can mug his ass.

When I am at work on Thurs I'll send ya the max stats from amens as it probably doesn't help guessing... oh and that was a couple of months ago so maybe one or two new dvds came out.

14 years ago  #34
neo88
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my base speed is 50mil.....in speed cell with no weapon/armor its 186.58mil.....= 373% increase with splice its 205 = 410%...dunno how the numbers work but thats what it adds.

and to put this in perspective for you: I can't say I know all what im saying is correct but from what i've heard and seen im pretty sure its accurate. these are probably two of the strongest people in the game (hanako and bkgangster) im pretty sure that hanako has trained much more base stats(total across all three) then bkgangster has. bk though has only trained two stats and has no need for defense and is either very close to beating hanako or can beat her(dont think they have fought recently). Im pretty sure hanako has put in much more time training and has a significant amount more base stats then bk, yet he can beat her. so draw your own conclusions

14 years ago  #35
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This idea is kewl, i like it

Ye i know.. Im beastin'
14 years ago  #36
nickrox
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lets just add fatalities

14 years ago  #37
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Originally posted by neo88 my base speed is 50mil.....in speed cell with no weapon/armor its 186.58mil.....= 373% increase with splice its 205 = 410%...dunno how the numbers work but thats what it adds.

and to put this in perspective for you: I can't say I know all what im saying is correct but from what i've heard and seen im pretty sure its accurate. these are probably two of the strongest people in the game (hanako and bkgangster) im pretty sure that hanako has trained much more base stats(total across all three) then bkgangster has. bk though has only trained two stats and has no need for defense and is either very close to beating hanako or can beat her(dont think they have fought recently). Im pretty sure hanako has put in much more time training and has a significant amount more base stats then bk, yet he can beat her. so draw your own conclusions

Actually its less than a 300% increase... as it is an increase, rather than being absolute, you have to minus 100%. Ie. if your stats were 50mil (ie. no amens) then you wouldn't have 100% increase, you'd have 0. That clears that up but still not sure why splice is giving such a large % though. Wonder if anyone can shed some light on this?

Ok your point there is true, assuming your facts are right. However, Hana has trained all three according to you - I assume roughly evenly? If she trained so that her defence took up about 70% of her total stats and her speed and strength had a 15% share each then she'd whip BK. personally I don't call someone with even stats a defence trainer... I'd call someone a defence trainer as someone who's defence is MUCH higher than the other stats (ie. only good for fights, poor against muggings), not equal.

14 years ago  #38
neo88
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well the people with high def I know havent gone to 70% extreme that I have seen....you should show us how its done

14 years ago  #39
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Originally posted by neo88 well the people with high def I know havent gone to 70% extreme that I have seen....you should show us how its done

Lol... probably because they get bored of getting mugged. Most of the defence trainers that I 'tangle' with (levels 18 to 14 mostly) have a heavily biased defence. Think its the same for AZ, and Put too.

Any level 24+s on here with much more defence than the other two stats?

14 years ago  #40
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I read a bit of wat was said.....i personally agree 1005 wit death_hand_luke.....Defensive trainers have more percentage amens than dat of speed n strength period.........now i understand wat neo said about defensive trainers having to train all 3 stats.........but i choose to train speed n strength b.c i didnt wanna get mug......defensive trainers r supposed to train defense n strength but b.c they dont wanna get mug they train speed also....so dats da only reason they train all 3 stats..........now about something neo said about me n hana base..........im not so sure all 3 of her base adds up to mines but i could be wrong n if it is higher than mine then i dont think its significantly higher so ur just jumping out on a limb there bro

 

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